165/65r14 Tire Discussion

[Mark]

I don't need additional payload, I need extra ... assurance. But I totally get what you're saying. I will certainly consider bigger tires. I prefer though not to run those huge mammoth drag-slick 175 tires though.

I don't haul heavy loads with my Mirage. I have a hitch, but I only use it for my rear bike rack.

I lost a factory Dunlop @ 15,000 miles (sidewall blow out in the rear with nothing in the back of the car). I was simply driving to town for a driving lesson that morning. In all my years of driving, I've never had a tire fail like that. I used up two of the remaining Dunlop tires, but I never trusted them after that. It made me start carrying a full size spare in my Mirage.

I am not a brand loyalty type of person.

Nexen & Kumho make a decent 165/65r14 tire for a decent price, & no one else does. It's that simple.

If the 165/65r14 Falken tire was their Sincera SN250 A/S -720AB/80,000 mile warranty tire, I would recommend that one. Sadly, it's a 320BB/no warranty tire instead.

It's possible that one of the Chinese tire brands or the Armstrong tires made in Thailand are decent tires, but I feel that's more of a gamble.

I bought Nokian Nordman 7 snow tires thinking they were made in Finland (where my oldest daughter lives), but they were made in Russia. I recently bought Vredestein tires thinking they were also made in Europe.

Search where Vredestein tires are made, & this is what you find -

"We have been manufacturing first-class tires in the Netherlands for over a century and are dedicated to preserving our European production for the next. Our tires have been manufactured in the Netherlands since Vredestein began and continue to do so from our production hub in Enschede, operating since 1952."

The Vredestein Quatrac 5 tires I received this week were made in India.

Tire Rack does share where tires are made, but I overlooked that.

If you are concerned about the Kumho Solus TA51a being made in Korea, I just found out they are made in Vietnam. Does that make me feel better about them? No!

Falken tires both the Sincera SN250 A/S & Sincera SN250A A/S are made in Thailand. Thus, the reason we probably see the cheaper one used as factory tires on the newer model Mirages.

We live in a global market. It's utterly impossible to get around that. Russia goes to war & Nokian Nordman 7 snow tires disappear.

[Grumpy Bear]

If the 165/65r14 Falken tire was their Sincera SN250 A/S -720AB/80,000 mile warranty tire, I would recommend that one. Sadly, it's a 320BB/no warranty tire instead.

You mean this one? https://tiresize.com/tires/Falken/Si...-165-65R14.htm
80K warranty


Armstrong is cheap

https://simpletire.com/brands/armstrong-tires/blu-trac

[Mark]

You mean this one? https://tiresize.com/tires/Falken/Si...-165-65R14.htm
80K warranty


Armstrong is cheap

https://simpletire.com/brands/armstrong-tires/blu-trac

There lies the deception. A 165/65r14 Falken Sincera SN250A A/S is a 320BB tire with no warranty. What you share doesn't exist. They have the 320BB rating correct, but the tire name & warranty are wrong!

I challenge you to find it on the Falken Tire website. They don't list any 165 wide tires on their website, but yet this cheaper tire exists in our market for the Mirage.

Discount Tire Direct was pawning off the inferior tire as being the same tire at one time. So I asked them to prove it to me. After a few requests, they pulled the tire off their website. Tire Rack lists the 165/65r14 Falken correctly. It's a 320BB tire with no warranty. Why buy that tire when you can buy a 640AA/75,000 mile warranty Kumho tire for less money?

A 175/65r14 Falken Sincera SN250 A/S has a 720AB rating & 80,000 mile warranty.

SN250 & SN250A are not the same tire apparently. It's a big difference in my mind at least.

[BigMW]

There lies the deception. A 165/65r14 Falken Sincera SN250A A/S is a 320BB tire with no warranty. What you share doesn't exist. They have the 320BB rating correct, but the tire name & warranty are wrong!

I challenge you to find it on the Falken Tire website. They don't list any 165 wide tires on their website, but yet this cheaper tire exists in our market for the Mirage.

Discount Tire Direct was pawning off the inferior tire as being the same tire at one time. So I asked them to prove it to me. After a few requests, they pulled the tire off their website. Tire Rack lists the 165/65r14 Falken correctly. It's a 320BB tire with no warranty. Why buy that tire when you can buy a 640AA/75,000 mile warranty Kumho tire for less money?

A 175/65r14 Falken Sincera SN250 A/S has a 720AB rating & 80,000 mile warranty.

SN250 & SN250A are not the same tire apparently. It's a big difference in my mind at least.

I suspect 250 and 250a ARE the same tire (compound, pattern, thickness, weight), but one is sold on the open market, at market prices. The other was a bulk purchase by the factory, at near cost prices, so they asked for it to be identified differently, so that the tire company is not responsible for warranty. If car manufacturer decides to warranty it, then you get it from them

Edit: note the key words "I suspect" - this is strictly my guess

[Mark]

I suspect 250 and 250a ARE the same tire (compound, pattern, thickness, weight), but one is sold on the open market, at market prices. The other was a bulk purchase by the factory, at near cost prices, so they asked for it to be identified differently, so that the tire company is not responsible for warranty. If car manufacturer decides to warranty it, then you get it from them

Edit: note the key words "I suspect" - this is strictly my guess

Like you said, that's purely speculation on your part. I never assume. The Mirage factory tire is on the open market in the States Almost every tire vendor seems to carry the factory Falken tire found on the Mirage.

I would like to think putting a different UTQG rating on the same tires would be illegal, but I don't think those ratings are regulated by anyone.

Ask Falken if their 320BB rated tire with no warranty is the exact same tire as their 720AB rated tire with an 80,000 mile warranty & let us know what you find out?

[Eggman]

Like you said, that's purely speculation on your part. I never assume.

But we have to assume the tire manufacturer is being honest! Until the tire is put into use, we can only assume the ratings are accurate.

I would like to think putting a different UTQG rating on the same tires would be illegal, but I don't think those ratings are regulated by anyone.

Uniform Tire Quality Grading

Uniform Tire Quality Grading, commonly abbreviated as UTQG, is a set of standards for passenger car tires that measures a tire's treadwear, temperature resistance and traction. The UTQG was created by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 1978, a branch of the United States Department of Transportation (DOT).[1] All passenger car tires manufactured for sale in the United States since March 31, 1979 are federally mandated to have the UTQG ratings on their sidewall as part of the DOT approval process, in which non-DOT approved tires are not legal for street use in the United States. [2] Light truck tires are not required to have a UTQG.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) established the Uniform Tire Quality Grading Standards (UTQGS) in 49 CFR 575.104.[3] When looking at UTQG ratings it is important to realize that the Department of Transportation does not conduct the tests. The grades are assigned by the tire manufacturers based on their test results or those conducted by an independent testing company they have hired. The NHTSA has the right to inspect tire manufacturers' data, and can fine them if inconsistencies are found.

This might explain the change in tire naming and the change in UTQG - was Falken caught misrepresenting their mileage claims? Who knows, we can only speculate.

[7milesout]

I suspect 250 and 250a ARE the same tire (compound, pattern, thickness, weight), but one is sold on the open market, at market prices. The other was a bulk purchase by the factory, at near cost prices, so they asked for it to be identified differently, so that the tire company is not responsible for warranty. If car manufacturer decides to warranty it, then you get it from them

Edit: note the key words "I suspect" - this is strictly my guess

BigMW - I'm going to state that in my experience inside the auto industry, that while you may not be EXACTLY right, you're going down a path that is more closer to actuality than others might suspect. OEMs wield enormous leverage over vendors. Most of the time OEMs get what they want. In that vein, I would say that an OEM interaction with Falken has led to this situation with the 250 / 250A tire.

And, Basic has mentioned, and I don't remember his words exactly, but it seems he puts not a whole lot of value in the UTQG ratings. Basic appears to be down in the trenches of some really good tire engineering, so I believe what he says about tires.

However - If it were between the two Falkens, I would choose the 250 tar over the 250A tar, for the cost & warranty reasons Mark states.

[Grumpy Bear]

BigMW - I'm going to state that in my experience inside the auto industry, that while you may not be EXACTLY right, you're going down a path that is more closer to actuality than others might suspect. OEMs wield enormous leverage over vendors. Most of the time OEMs get what they want. In that vein, I would say that an OEM interaction with Falken has led to this situation with the 250 / 250A tire.

And, Basic has mentioned, and I don't remember his words exactly, but it seems he puts not a whole lot of value in the UTQG ratings. Basic appears to be down in the trenches of some really good tire engineering, so I believe what he says about tires.

However - If it were between the two Falkens, I would choose the 250 tar over the 250A tar, for the cost & warranty reasons Mark states.

I ran across this with my Silverado. OEM tire was the Bridgestone Dueler H/T 684 II. 360 BB rated. OEM warranty was 35K. I rode that set of tires to retirement at 5/32" and 125,000 miles. Tire Rack carried a second tire with the same name but a much better warranty AND the OEM replacement. Difference? Price.

[Mark]

I ran across this with my Silverado. OEM tire was the Bridgestone Dueler H/T 684 II. 360 BB rated. OEM warranty was 35K. I rode that set of tires to retirement at 5/32" and 125,000 miles. Tire Rack carried a second tire with the same name but a much better warranty AND the OEM replacement. Difference? Price.

There is only one 165/65r14 tire that Falken sell in our market. It the same factory tire found on the newer Mirages. It's a 320BB/no warranty tire whether it comes on your new Mirage or you buy one today @ Tire Rack.

If someone has an awesome experience with them, they should continue buying them. I rather pay less money for a 640AA tire with a 75,000 mile warranty made by someone else.

[Grumpy Bear]

There is only one 165/65r14 tire that Falken sell in our market. It the same factory tire found on the newer Mirages. It's a 320BB/no warranty tire whether it comes on your new Mirage or you buy one today @ Tire Rack.

If someone has an awesome experience with them, they should continue buying them. I rather pay less money for a 640AA tire with a 75,000 mile warranty made by someone else.

Whatever floats your boat. Just say'n. They all play games.