Other Vehicles You Are (Fo' Real) Contemplating...

[Grumpy Bear]

I need to speak up here regarding the no emissions comment. Emissions are there, just less visible, not out of the tail pipe. Electricity has to be made, baterries are manufactured, then recycled, and at some point discarded. Instead of extracting oil, you extract other resources.

Keep in mind, everything you use is either farmed or mined (with very few exceptions, like logging and some fishing, hunting, and gathering)

Humans are easy to trick aren't they?

[Eggman]

I need to speak up here regarding the no emissions comment. Emissions are there, just less visible, not out of the tail pipe. Electricity has to be made, baterries are manufactured, then recycled, and at some point discarded. Instead of extracting oil, you extract other resources.

Keep in mind, everything you use is either farmed or mined (with very few exceptions, like logging and some fishing, hunting, and gathering)

You are right, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. Let me address your two points: energy & materials.

There's a big difference in the source of energy. Gasoline powered cars are restricted to fossil fuels; Diesels too. EVs can be powered by a multitude of energy sources including renewables.

This (as well as having an array of solar PV panels installed on our roof) sparked an interest in utility-level electricity generation and distribution and the amount of information available is better than ever. For an example, look at the website of my area grid operator, PJM. The name stands for Pennsylvania, New Jersey & Maryland but their original service area has grown especially since the Great Northeast Blackout of 2003. The cause of this blackout was overloaded high-voltage power lines that heated, expanded, and drooped into contact with a tree which was not properly maintained by the local electric utility, CEI, a First Energy company. This happened just a few miles away from where I live.

Have a look at the PJM website. There you'll find current pricing, demand and generation mix. The First Energy service area used to have more coal-burning plants but many have been closed and more are scheduled to be closed. Natural gas in being used more & more especially since fracking has released more petroleum & natural gas resources in this area (served by the Marcellus Shale formation.) Nuclear, natural gas and coal all serve the base load demands, and peak demands are filled in with other resources. Renewables are currently the cheapest way to generate electricity but are variable. Storage is a solution to this variability and is continuing to grow in the energy market.

At any given moment, visit the PJM website to see what is generating their electricity. It's not always coal as some folks (with a biased political agenda) would have you believe. Then look for the regional transmission organization (RTO) in your area to see their generation mix.


And when it comes to mining, those same biased folks cry foul over the mineral extraction for EVs but don't bat an eye over mining for fossil fuels. Again, the big difference there is once those fossil fuels are burned, they're converted to a greenhouse gas as CO2. The minerals used in batteries can be recycled.

[BigMW]

You are right, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. Let me address your two points: energy & materials.

There's a big difference in the source of energy. Gasoline powered cars are restricted to fossil fuels; Diesels too. EVs can be powered by a multitude of energy sources including renewables.

This (as well as having an array of solar PV panels installed on our roof) sparked an interest in utility-level electricity generation and distribution and the amount of information available is better than ever. For an example, look at the website of my area grid operator, PJM. The name stands for Pennsylvania, New Jersey & Maryland but their original service area has grown especially since the Great Northeast Blackout of 2003. The cause of this blackout was overloaded high-voltage power lines that heated, expanded, and drooped into contact with a tree which was not properly maintained by the local electric utility, CEI, a First Energy company. This happened just a few miles away from where I live.

Have a look at the PJM website. There you'll find current pricing, demand and generation mix. The First Energy service area used to have more coal-burning plants but many have been closed and more are scheduled to be closed. Natural gas in being used more & more especially since fracking has released more petroleum & natural gas resources in this area (served by the Marcellus Shale formation.) Nuclear, natural gas and coal all serve the base load demands, and peak demands are filled in with other resources. Renewables are currently the cheapest way to generate electricity but are variable. Storage is a solution to this variability and is continuing to grow in the energy market.

At any given moment, visit the PJM website to see what is generating their electricity. It's not always coal as some folks (with a biased political agenda) would have you believe. Then look for the regional transmission organization (RTO) in your area to see their generation mix.


And when it comes to mining, those same biased folks cry foul over the mineral extraction for EVs but don't bat an eye over mining for fossil fuels. Again, the big difference there is once those fossil fuels are burned, they're converted to a greenhouse gas as CO2. The minerals used in batteries can be recycled.

Your points are very valid, all I'm addressing is the fact that people completely ignore/forget that with EVs, there are still huge emissions, just of different kind. Mining is very resource intensive, but its usually far from population centres - out of sight, out of mind

[defensivetackle99]

You are right, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. Let me address your two points: energy & materials.

There's a big difference in the source of energy. Gasoline powered cars are restricted to fossil fuels; Diesels too. EVs can be powered by a multitude of energy sources including renewables.

This (as well as having an array of solar PV panels installed on our roof) sparked an interest in utility-level electricity generation and distribution and the amount of information available is better than ever. For an example, look at the website of my area grid operator, PJM. The name stands for Pennsylvania, New Jersey & Maryland but their original service area has grown especially since the Great Northeast Blackout of 2003. The cause of this blackout was overloaded high-voltage power lines that heated, expanded, and drooped into contact with a tree which was not properly maintained by the local electric utility, CEI, a First Energy company. This happened just a few miles away from where I live.

Have a look at the PJM website. There you'll find current pricing, demand and generation mix. The First Energy service area used to have more coal-burning plants but many have been closed and more are scheduled to be closed. Natural gas in being used more & more especially since fracking has released more petroleum & natural gas resources in this area (served by the Marcellus Shale formation.) Nuclear, natural gas and coal all serve the base load demands, and peak demands are filled in with other resources. Renewables are currently the cheapest way to generate electricity but are variable. Storage is a solution to this variability and is continuing to grow in the energy market.

At any given moment, visit the PJM website to see what is generating their electricity. It's not always coal as some folks (with a biased political agenda) would have you believe. Then look for the regional transmission organization (RTO) in your area to see their generation mix.


And when it comes to mining, those same biased folks cry foul over the mineral extraction for EVs but don't bat an eye over mining for fossil fuels. Again, the big difference there is once those fossil fuels are burned, they're converted to a greenhouse gas as CO2. The minerals used in batteries can be recycled.

Make sense to me. Thanks for sharing.

At this point I’m baffled about Toyota not producing EV . Instead they do PHEV. Nothing wrong with PHEV as the best of both worlds like the VOLT but EV variant would be much more simple enough to fit Toyo’s image. Guess I’ll never know until 2035.

Mirage EV or Colt EV would be nice. Outlander Sport EV too.

Or Ford Fiesta EV lol. I can only keep dreaming.

[MetroMPG]

This caught my attention: 2011 Leaf with reduced range. $3500. That's the cheapest roadworthy Leaf I've seen around these parts...

- $3500
- 7/12 bar battery
- 5 Headed seat and steering wheel
- Backup camera
- Travel 60-80km*
- Winter Tire, used one season
- Come with Level 1 changer
- One key only
- Only respond to reasonable offer

(* depend on weather and Road condition)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...51176430781648

60-80 km = 40-50 miles

90% of my driving these days is in my folks' 2018 Kia Soul (neither of them can drive any more).

It'd be far more interesting to do errands & run them around in an old Leaf & charge at home.

[defensivetackle99]

This caught my attention: 2011 Leaf with reduced range. $3500. That's the cheapest roadworthy Leaf I've seen around these parts...





https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...51176430781648

60-80 km = 40-50 miles

90% of my driving these days is in my folks' 2018 Kia Soul (neither of them can drive any more).

It'd be far more interesting to do errands & run them around in an old Leaf & charge at home.

Like the iPhone from 2010 ha!

[Top_Fuel]

2011 Leaf with reduced range

- Travel 60-80km* (depend on weather and Road condition)

Translation:

If you drive this on a cold winter day with the heat on, don't plan on driving more than 30 km (about 18 miles).

[Mark]

I know hybrids are magical in getting better fuel economy, but at the expense of a more complicated design. That's what I admire most about the Mirage - hybrid-level fuel economy (or better) with a simple, straightforward design.

If you want the benefits of electric, just go all-in. You will not miss the oil changes - trying to find the perfect oil & filter, then trying to find them on sale somewhere. No trips to a gas station - laugh as you pass them by. No exhaust, no emissions, no emissions controls, no timing chain, no valve or connecting rod clacking.

I could go on & on!

Imagine living in an apartment in a large city. No garage, no driveway, no apartment parking lot for your car. My oldest daughter lives in such a situation with her young family. They own one small Fiat Punto, & they share it with her mother-in-law & sister-in-law. They rely on public transportation within the city most of the time.

I traveled 8 hours to purchase something last Thursday. I stayed overnight in a motel, & I drove back 8 hours the next day. If I owned a typical EV, I would have used my Forester. I saw no charging stations at my Minnesota motel. My Mirage met my needs for this trip perfectly.

A good friend has a Ram pickup truck & a 2023 Bolt. The Bolt is perfect for his wife's 35 mile commute to work, but it limits them for longer trips. They find themselves using their pickup truck way more often now. The Bolt replaced their Golf, which was in an accident. His job requires the truck, because he does roofing.

An EV is great for some, but not all. Even with all its pluses, there remain trade offs. For families who own multiple vehicles, I can see where an EV in the fleet may be nice. For those who only own one vehicle, it may be really hard to justify an EV.

Would Darin be considering an EV if he didn't have his parents' Kia to drive?

I think most are wise enough to know what meets their needs best. An EV may be a good choice for some, but it's surely not the best choice for everyone. Hybrids come with very few limitations. Yes, they will need service like your average car, but they will meet most any driving need. The joy of the Mirage is its almost hybrid performance without the added. cost. A Mirage fits my needs perfectly! An EV would come with limitations that make it less appealing to me. We all have different needs.

[Fummins]

An ev would work fine for me for the most part. I wouldn't be saving any money buying one though. Road trips would be a nuisance. Telsa seems to be the way to go at the moment. It'll be neat so see what happens when other mfgs switch over to the tesla charger connector and can start clogging up Telsa's superchargers. Out here and in other bf-no-where places it's probably not going to be an immediate problem.

I'll hang onto ol' faithful for now, fix the rest of my junk. I'm on the fence as to what I'm doing with the Van. I like driving it but it doesn't drive anymore and when it did, it got worse fuel economy than my truck. So I keep going back to the beforward(jdm) site looking at the next poor investment.

[7milesout]

At this point I’m baffled about Toyota not producing EV . Instead they do PHEV. Nothing wrong with PHEV as the best of both worlds like the VOLT but EV variant would be much more simple enough to fit Toyo’s image.

Having worked for the Japanese side of Toyota, deep into the organization, I got a good feel of the mindset of Toyota (and it is GOOD). At the heart of Toyota are some REALLY smart BUSINESS men. Not car guys. Their product is cars. The smart business men want their products to be the best products available. So that they will sell. Their goal is to make customers satisfied. Anywho...

Those smart business men don't want to have to deal with what Tesla is dealing with RIGHT NOW. They will wait until the infrastructure is more suitable, and or it is something the BUYING public wants, prior to producing meeeeellions of EVs and associated EV demands. Toyota sees the writing on the wall ... said writing that our trusty gobment politicians ignore. I think ole Musky sees it too. He's basically said so. However, he painted himself into a corner going full EV only. I have to believe ole Musky is going to figure out a reasonable solution. Will it be a change of direction? Or just suck up the problems and forge through them? I couldn't say.